ADS vs PG

[unixkd]

Nowadays, nobody would build an ERP system like it was done in the 90's. An ERP system should be build in a modular structure, highly scalable and on the user side completely platform independent. Tools like Kubernetes, Docker, Istio, Kafka are used for the microservices and their environment, Java, C# and others for the backend technologies. Whatever you add to your Xbase++ biotope, it's located on a lonely planet and completely lost in space.

This is true when you want to build something that lasts a while, created by a bigger team for a bigger company and/or market.

If you work for a company that can afford to work mainly with Windows monoliths, which may involve additional backend structure with web frontends, then you can also develop large parts of something like that with Xbase++. However, I can't imagine that there will be a generation change for Xbase++. The community is getting older and smaller, and there is no future for this in sight. You still can build highly integrated, genius applications with Xbase++ (we all do or did), but you will be the last person working on it.

Hi Tom

Languages such as C, C++, Java etc were already in existence before the creation of xbase++ but we opted for xbase++. I recalled Roger wrote a beautiful article on why xbase++ choice is prefer even over visual basic, Delphi etc. For me going back to any of those is like Israelites going back to Egypt and is not a choice at all.

I am equally not sure that Alaska will agree with you that their product is becoming obsolete.

The most important language understood by developers is productivity and that is what xbase++ brings to table.

Joe

[Tom]

If you think so, Joe - okay.

[SlavkoDam]

k-insis wrote:
There is absolutely nothing wrong for DBMS or any other software to be installed fully or party by script language, whether it is bash shell , powerShell or good old CMD batch. They all have purpose.

I only wanted to say that good old CMD batch is still using by many companies even in a modern Windows. It is the simplest and fastest way to do some tasks, and nobody cares about the modern GUI look.
Similar is with programming languages. Xbase++ is more productive, easier to use and faster to learn than C++, Java, Python and other modern programming languages. I don't think that it will die ever. Besides, there are xHarbour, FiveWin, WinDev which are also very vivid.

[Tom]

There's no point in arguing about the future direction of software development. Comparing CLI and GUI isn't helpful either. That train has long since left the station.

But of course, that doesn't mean that everything that doesn't conform to current standards will immediately cease to exist (and we're talking about a few hundred developers worldwide compared to millions). The world of our languages ​​will certainly survive for a while longer. But I certainly wouldn't choose them myself today. So anyone facing this decision should think carefully.

[Tom]

Addition:
My company operates in a highly fragmented, highly competitive market. Some of our competitors are twenty or thirty times our size, and they use cutting-edge technologies. Nevertheless, we still often manage to prevail over them because we're very fast, because we have experience, because our software is extremely powerful, and because size isn't always an advantage. But it's foreseeable that this situation will end because our customers are also changing. For many, technology is no longer magic. They understand what's possible and how it should work.

And you can't offer these people old-fashioned software anymore, no matter what it can do.

[k-insis]

Python and php are easy to learn. Not that hard at all and integrate greatly in web apps.

Add xsharp (open source and activelty developed) into mix of less known xb* suites.

A suite that is integrated into .NET system and Visual Studio ; As such it uses latest C# compiler at backend with support for multiple source code dialects including xbase and multiple .NET version targets.

https://www.xsharp.eu/help/dialects.html

k-insis wrote:
There is absolutely nothing wrong for DBMS or any other software to be installed fully or party by script language, whether it is bash shell , powerShell or good old CMD batch. They all have purpose.

I only wanted to say that good old CMD batch is still using by many companies even in a modern Windows. It is the simplest and fastest way to do some tasks, and nobody cares about the modern GUI look.
Similar is with programming languages. Xbase++ is more productive, easier to use and faster to learn than C++, Java, Python and other modern programming languages. I don't think that it will die ever. Besides, there are xHarbour, FiveWin, WinDev which are also very vivid.

[unixkd]

Hi K-insis

I evaluated xsharp in the past and discovered that it is a transpiler akin to xharbour. It does not solve the problem that Tom is envisaging. I stand to be corrected. Tom is looking at applications that will run on various platforms such as android, iOS, windows, Linux etc and various devices like tablets, smart phones, laptop etc unhindered.

This need was identify long ago and was the main reason why products such as Alaska cxp, powerweb and xb2net emerged. Meaning application should be 2- thier the back end and the web frontend. From what I understand from Tom submission, he is envisaging a situation where both back end and frontend will converge and be done in a platform say python. Now let me ask Tom a specific question.

For start a large scale project which languages will you recommend?

These discussions are very beneficial.

Thanks

Joe

[Tom]

For start a large scale project which languages will you recommend?

We are co-working on a large project based on the Angular framework for the frontends, Spring/Spring Boot (Java frameworks) are used in addition and for backend technologies and the databases are build with Maria DB. Several other tools are used for building the application(s), for versioning and co-working on it, but I wouldn't recommend to use exactly this way - besides, I'm not directly involved in the development process. We ourselves use the React framework for web applications and mobile applications, adding different technologies for backend infrastructure (one of them is a Xb2.Net-server talking to our business logic and databases), but every decision you make has advantages and disadvantages. When working with very exotic technologies, it's harder to get support, ready-made components, collaboration systems, and much more. Systems like Jira, Slack, Confluence, Outline, Github, etc., offer easy integration options for familiar structures (like Angular or React). You can't even get templates for Visual Studio for Xbase++. You're at the mercy of the horrible Workbench or have to work with an editor that was last updated in the 1990s.

There is no straight answer to your question. It depends on the team that works on the project, on the money and time you have.

[SlavkoDam]

k-insis wrote:
Python and php are easy to learn. Not that hard at all and integrate greatly in web apps.
Add xsharp (open source and actively developed) into mix of less known xb* suites.

I can learn anything you want. But, the question is why I should do that when I can achieve anything I want and anything that is needed in any kind of desktop or web application with Xbase++, and in a simpler and faster way? New languages will emerge all the time, its normal. Does it mean that I have to change my working environment every couple of years? I don't do that, I extend the capabilities of Xbase++ with new features, because it is possible and I know how to do that. That is the way how C++ and C# evolved from C. C#, Java, Python, X#, etc. are class languages. It is much more complicated and time demanding to write this kind of program than Xbase++ program. You need a complex Workbench for them, and a simple editor for Xbase++.

Customers are always looking for a simple, fast, well designed and cheap solution. I don't think that they are so educated and demanding for technology options.

[Tom]

Customers are always looking for a simple, fast, well designed and cheap solution. I don't think that they are so educated and demanding for technology options.

(Our) Customer nowadays are looking for highly scalable, multi-platform, safe and easy-to-use applications. The don't look for something cheap that runs on an office computer (with Windows 7, if possible) and does it's job more or less good. There are some (older) customers left thinking that way, but for most of them, it has changed. Integration and scalabilty are demanded, it must be device-independend and good looking. We still can provide something like this using add-ons and downsized web-frontends and our mobile stuff, but that means, we have three to five products to maintain and support. With modern techniques, all the stuff can be done in one application. Data driven, excellent looking, fast and reliable. You can use Xbase++ as the core of something like that, but if you start new, don't do that.