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Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:12 am
by bwolfsohn
**** From Alaska ****
// Caution: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update
Our final tests with Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update) revealed timing issues with the local file system, which may lead to changed application behavior as well as application runtime errors. In fact, all coding patterns which first delete a file on the local storage and then assume the file is gone may fail. This is valid for all programming languages used as the behaviour is introduced on the Windows API/file-system level. In other words, an FErase( "test.dbf" ) may lead to File( "test.dbf" ) == .T. in some but not all cases.
With that finding in mind we can not recommend updating production systems right now to Windows 10 Fall Creators Update. Our lab is working to get an idea if there is a way to fix or work around this behavior. For more details see PDR 6954.
By the way: all this reminds us about the infamous SMB2 design bug for which Alaska Software provided a fix on the Workstation side, which was downloaded by tens of thousands of Clipper, Visual FoxPro, Access and Office developers worldwide.
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:57 am
by Tom
Due to changes Microsoft added to the API in general, webservers driven by Xb2.Net will fail when started under this Windows version. Boris should be informed and maybe already works on a solution.
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:52 am
by Auge_Ohr
bwolfsohn wrote:By the way: all this reminds us about the infamous SMB2 design bug for which Alaska Software provided a fix on the Workstation side, which was downloaded by tens of thousands of Clipper, Visual FoxPro, Access and Office developers worldwide.
so Alaska SMB2 Patch does not work ...
i wonder why M$ have release "old" 10.16299.15 as Redstone 3 while last "Insider" is 10.17017.1000.
but we are lucky while 10.16299 still have SMB1 enable. (was disable since 10.16257)
- Win10_16299_SMB.jpg (245.63 KiB) Viewed 23310 times
SMB1 WILL be disable soon
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/fil ... sing-smb1/
- Win10_17017.jpg (185.02 KiB) Viewed 23310 times
other of RS3 : you have to use Powershell now for many things where it work before with CMD or via App/ActiveX
Windows 10 still have "Windows Performance Index". i have used WMI with Win32_WinSAT but this does not work any more.
Code: Select all
PowerShell Get-WmiObject -class Win32_WinSAT
this is what you need now
oh, forgot to say : i can't install 32bit Version of 1709
while on same PC (multi-boot) 64bit Version work
- Win10_RS3_32Bit.JPG (100.35 KiB) Viewed 23310 times
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:50 am
by jgelhaus
Does anyone have a handle on the full scope of issues introduced with Win 10 Fall Creators (1709) and Xbase++?
I'm aware of disk caching and file deletion issues, as well and rendering issues with certain screen resolutions. What else have folks been encountering?
The FCA system that Cliff Wiernik created and I'm now responsible to maintain is being compiled with 2.00.807. We've been heeding Alaska's recommendation sent last fall:
Our final tests with Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update) revealed timing issues with the local file system, which may lead to changed application behavior as well as application runtime errors. In fact, all coding patterns which first delete a file on the local storage and then assume the file is gone may fail. This is valid for all programming languages used as the behaviour is introduced on the Windows API/file-system level. In other words, an FErase( "test.dbf" ) may lead to File( "test.dbf" ) == .T. in some but not all cases.
With that finding in mind we can not recommend updating production systems right now to Windows 10 Fall Creators Update. Our lab is working to get an idea if there is a way to fix or work around this behavior. For more details see PDR 6954.
Microsoft is getting increasingly crafty about pushing updates to endpoints even were by policy and WSUS we are trying to prevent the 1709 update from being distributed.
Win 10 1607 end of service date is April 10, 2018 and 1703 end of service date is October 9, 2018, so I understand why they want everyone to update. I'm just not sure how long we can continue to hold it off. And, there doesn't seem to be any progress towards fixes from Alaska.
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:09 pm
by Auge_Ohr
jgelhaus wrote:Does anyone have a handle on the full scope of issues introduced with Win 10 Fall Creators (1709) and Xbase++?
seem you are new to Xbase++ ... welcome
Alaska does not give us User Information only a "Online Knowledge Base"
https://www.alaska-software.com/scripts ... displaypdr
jgelhaus wrote:What else have folks been encountering?
i have made a App to monitor PDR.
i have count 336 Item for v2.x where 211 are OPEN (see attached files)
- V2OPEN.ZIP
- 211 OPEN v2.x PDR date 21.03.2018
- (48.05 KiB) Downloaded 936 times
jgelhaus wrote:We've been heeding Alaska's recommendation sent last fall:
did you have same (BAD) Environment ?
btw. i recommend to use FExists() instead of FILE()
jgelhaus wrote:I'm just not sure how long we can continue to hold it off.
you can´t stop Windows 10 ... and next is POLARIS
jgelhaus wrote:And, there doesn't seem to be any progress towards fixes from Alaska.
no Comment
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:15 am
by jgelhaus
Yes, you could say I'm new to Xbase. I have 15 years of dev experience, mostly in Java, C++, Perl, and PHP. I would not be working on Xbase to the extent that I am except for Cliff W's passing which elevated my responsibility for our system.
Specifically for the FErase issue, we proposed to Alaska putting a translate in the CH to turn all deletion into file rename (sample attached), working around this issue. Andreas replied with the following:
The approach to replace the deletion of a file by a replace operation seems to be valid. Take care when hiding FErase() using the preprocessor. Reading the code it is no longer abvious what operation is running. A better approach is to implement the other way round. Have LB_Erase() in your source code. Call FErase() from LB_Erase() or use the workaround depending on the operating system. Well, it is more work to implement and subject your decision.
I have to appologize not having been clear regarding PDR 6954. The PDR is informational. As the false behavior is with the file system there is little we can do. The file system is not on our control. For the time being the pattern FErase() / File() is not save and needs a workarounded, for example using an approach as you have suggested with your attachments.
I hope this helps anyway.
With my best regards,
Andreas Herdt
This tells we either we:
1) workaround the issues as they are found or
2) stay on Win 10 1703 with a move from Professional to Enterprise licensing and a long-term support/patch agreement.
Given the number of places we likely have issues in our codebase of 1.2M lines, I don't think I want to go down the road of trying to mitigate the Xbase 2 / Win 10 issues as we encounter them.
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:25 pm
by Auge_Ohr
so i have to ask for your Environment ... "where" did you FERASE() ?
on Server or on (shared) local Directory ?
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:23 pm
by rdonnay
A better approach is to implement the other way round. Have LB_Erase() in your source code. Call FErase() from LB_Erase() or use the workaround depending on the operating system.
I agree totally with Andreas on this issue.
You should NEVER replace an Xbase++ function or command.
I saw a lot of this in Clipper add-on products and it always led to disaster.
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:39 pm
by Tom
We didn't face
any problems with the latest W10 versions yet, and we have
some customers using them (and we do this ourselves). We delivered the fix for PDR 6904 (screen resolution) for 1.9SL1 and 2.0, that's it. The file deletion issue seems not to be such a big thing. To be honest, maybe we never check if a file was really deleted after we tried to do this. Why should we?
Re: Windows 10 Fall Creators Update WARNING!!
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:45 am
by bwolfsohn
Tom wrote:The file deletion issue seems not to be such a big thing. To be honest, maybe we never check if a file was really deleted after we tried to do this. Why should we?
one reason which comes to mind is if you are immediately re-using the file name to fcreate another file..
we've always deleted an index file before re-creating an index...